It will come to no suprise when I tell you all that the end-game content in WAR is a bit… lackluster. I’m not normally one to gripe, and really I’m not. I have tons of fun running around IC killing destro at every turn and doing my best to win the PQ. However, every single time I get into IC, there’s half a dozen people on the verge of /ragequit because it simply isn’t the shining jewel of bliss they expected it to be. This really sucks when there’s a significant force to fight against, and you really need every last bit of support from the players around you. Being the Engineer on the right, I really do not survive well when it comes to mass scale combat unless there’s a wall of melee in front of me causing chaos. Please people, stop with the uber-hate when in a City Instance. Save it for afterwards if only to be considerate for the rest of us playing to win. Cancerous /ragequit in region kills morale for everyone, and takes the focus off the task at hand.
However, I digress. Speaking on /ragequit isn’t truly my point, but rather what can be done about City Instances to make them feel more like a siege than a sandbox.That’s the problem at the moment. You have a handful of objectives on a timer spread across the damn map. Typically this means everyone runs around all crazy to finish things, or just balls up in the middle and ends up bitch slapping each other for two hours. Destruction has horrible horrible spawn points on both sides of the map in wide open positions, like the flightmaster in IC, or the gates of Altdorf. This is actually good for them since their 55 Champions wftpwn anything in a 150′ radius, but bad for Order when their Lord spawns right next to their entry, and the 55 Champs continue to wtfpwn as an attempt to kill the Lord fails over and over. I’ve seen a chest drop off a Lord 5 times in the dozen times I’ve been in IC. These were 2 underpopulated instances where we rolled the opposition so hard they left and gave up. The other 10 times were solidly defended, and killing 4 Heroes and a Lord simply wasn’t going to happen.
I really have no problem with that. Defenders should have the massive advantage in my opinion. Cities should be an epic task to complete with a warband of fully geared guildies in tight Ventrilo communication, working together in perfect harmony, and killing in such epic style that the defenders leave with their heads hanging low in shame. Pug warbands, should not, and should never stand a chance against another pug warband on the first stage. Just listen to some of the EU players that managed to capture the Kings on each side (albeit bug-laden and glitchy). They didn’t randomly happen to show up in the same place and get lucky. They were premade. With sieges getting fixed and balanced, you’re not going to see any more underpopulated instances. No one will get past the first stage unless they are incredibly organized, and efficiently deadly to a sickening degree. All the better, you want to see the TRUE end-game, then fucking act like it. It ain’t gonna happen rolling around solo and jumping into pugs. This ain’t about YOU, it’s about the REALM. Everyone can work together (or at least large groups of us), or you can crai yourself to sleep about how “borked” end-game is.
Moving on, there are ways to change the game to sedate the hoarde of players that can’t get past rant #1, still leave the game intact, and possibly make things more fun. So, without further ado, what does the majority think the most fun part of the game is right now? SCENARIOS. 80% of my guild will play the game solely for scenarios, and admittedly take Keeps and BO’s for the inf/gear. Personally, I prefer the open RvR of “ganking” players my level in their PvE zones, but it’s a trial of patience more than anything. Scenarios are where WAR makes their money and players get their jollies. There’s a scoreboard, objectives, and a tightly focused direction. Groups are automatically formed and most players respect this. I love PQ’s, the concept is amazing, but not for a city siege. It’s too sporadic, giving players a sense of random death at every turn, instead of a focused offensive with a true goal in sight. This isn’t to suggest turning the City Sieges into scenarios, but using elements from scenarios as part of the siege. This is END GAME. This should be a culmination of all the amazingly cool stuff you’ve seen throughout it all!
Remove all the random trash mobs, and add in the Scoreboard. This will give all players an idea of who is effective and should be targeted, while letting players ignore those who do little. Doubly effective in allowing high ranked players attack each other, and low ranked players to survive/enjoy the setting a while longer.
Choke points! You can’t tell me that if you were defending your city, and knew it was coming, you wouldn’t block off some of the streets to force players into one place.
The great thing about this, is a style of play more akin to Battle for Praag. Add in something like 9 objectives through each of the cities, and treat them like a hybrid BO/capture point. Spawn defensive terrain, single target siege weapons, defending champs, and a hold to claim capture mechanic.
Have a wizard send you to a claimed BO when you get killed, reminiscent of Dragon’s Bane.
Add in a Bombing Run type of objective to blast open alternate paths through the city, and let defenders repair them by holding the point for a short duration.
Picklock/Bypass Defenses through the Bombing Run points, giving MDPS a reason to fight and assassinate their backlines. Or, alternatively, snatch BO’s from them if they can spare the forward forces. How many MDPS does it take to gank a BO? More than they would want to spare I’d bet, but at least they get the option.
On top of all this, make it point based. Typical scenarios go up to 500 over 15 minutes. I’m thinking, remove the time limit, and up the points to 2500.
Capture points – 3pt per 5 seconds
Player kills – 5pt each
Bombing run sucess – 15pt each
Repair sucess – 25pt each
At the end of a “Win”, the winners are dislocated to face off against the Lord in a isolated area with a no-rez zone up on a 7 minute timer. Have the siege reset via “magical forces”, a PQ chest drop at the spawn point provided the Lord was defeated, and let everyone /roll for 3 minutes on grabbing their gold bags. This, in a perfect world, would equate to a 30-40 minute battle, with 7 minutes of downtime for the losers to restrategize, and a 3 minute headstart on zone if the winners take that long to grab their bag.
But wait! There can still be more!
Why the hell don’t we have an influence bar for the final city? Simple enough, make it a high amount of influence, but the rewards being a choice between two pieces of gear!
~ inf requirement : 2 city atk or def
Reward 1 – Invader gloves or boots
~ inf requirement : 5 city atk or def
Reward 2 – Invader shoulders or belt
~ inf requirement : 12 city atk or def
Reward 3 – Invader chest or helm
I have all kinds of variations on how a city siege could work better, and I post my suggestions in the Warhammer forums when I come up with them. This is one of my favorite variations on things. I’ve even got pictures below of what the proposed changes would look something like
, imagine the scribbly orange lines to be new barricades/gates.
You can find all kinds of suggestions at the Developers Roundtable – Future Features Suggestions . Some of them aren’t half bad, some are half-baked at best. I tend to roam around there and the bug report section to keep fingers on the pulse of WAR. One thing that I might have to touch on later, would be the Pros and Cons of Cross Server Scenarios.
Until next time!
2 thoughts on “Much ado about City Sieges”
hmm haven't even thought of some of those, some nice ideas grimnir =)points based vs time based, and an influence bar would both be two big steps towards making it more fun; it feels so futile being there sometimes..
I really like the idea of an influence bar for the city sieges.I have never been on a city siege myself, so you can take this with a grain of salt, but one thing I can't get my head around is that when a siege occurs, you can't guarantee there will be any real people there to defend. I'm amazed at what the population on Ironfist is like at 2AM (the couple of times I've been up that late on the weekend), however, there are still not going to be that many people defending when a city is sieged. There has to be a way for Mythic to make it so that when a realm gets into a city, they can't just roll through to the Lord and give him a smackdown. No players seem to think PQs are the answer. I don't know that I have one, but I think any answer needs to make sure that real, live people are not needed to defend.-Anromir